The War on Women
That in 2012, "womens' rights" is still an issue off elections is ridiculous. Not becuase it is still a societal issue even 40 years after major women's rights efforts in the second wave of feminism in the '60s and '70s, but that people believe government can and should be doing more to fix it. True equality cannot be legislated; it is earned. The opportunity and the framework for female pay equality is there, it is only a matter of women taking advantage of these opportunities that are available. This is a proccess that naturally occurs at its own rate. No one is saying women are not fundamentally equal to men. There is no concerted effort today to keep women out of higher level jobs, it is just a matter that fewer women apply for said jobs. In the same way that affirmative action does not bring equality to minority students or employees, more legislation like the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act will not bring equality to women.
As far as "womens' health" as an issue, I think it is demeaning to women that our 'health' is reduced to access to contraception and reproductive services. My health as a woman certainly doesn't depend on that, and if another woman's does, then those are (in all cases except for rape) conscious lifestyle choices that she made and as such, she should be willing to take responsibility for them. With abortions, people say that no one else should tell a woman what she has a right to do with her own body. Well no one else should be able to tell the unborn child that it doesn't have a right to be alive just because it may be "inconvenient" or not what the mother wants. Even in cases of rape, killing the baby is wrong because of the sanctified right to life.
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With all due respect, I disagree with Grace's position on this issue. I understand where she is coming from, but politicians addressing the issue of women's rights are justified. In the article, Obama spoke to voters about Romney's policies on women's health issues and more. Romney has also included in his campaign talk of this topic. Both candidates addressed women voters, talking about issues they care about. This is no different than politicians addressing groups such as blacks, hispanics, blue collar workers, Christians, etc. These groups vote for the next president, and if they view issues as significant, our political system makes avoiding these issues as a politician difficult. After all, as we learned in the chapter on Political Opinions, people's religion, gender, etc. affects how they vote.
ReplyDeleteMore specifically on women's rights as an issue being relevant, inequalities in the workplace still exist. Legislation on such issues is completely relevant; previous legislation is what gave women the rights they do have today!
And lastly, even if someone does not believe in abortions under any circumstances, be it for religious, personal, or ethical reasons, that is their belief!!! The government should not be deciding something so personal, pushing their beliefs on the issue onto others. A woman's body is just that - her own. A choice as serious as abortion should be left up to the woman and her doctor. I find it "demeaning to women" that the government would put tight restrictions on such an issue. I don't see "women's health" being reduced "to access to contraception and reproductive services." Rather, these are two aspects of women's health that have come into the spotlight because politicians are taking it upon themselves to regulate a personal choice! I understand that some view abortion as wrong under any circumstances. I am not saying I disagree (or agree) with this. All I am saying is the government should not dictate how women approach pregnancy and contraceptives.
I completely agree with the last part of this. Abortion should not be a government decision and many people have very different beliefs and views on these issues. Although it is a woman's decision to do what she wants in her life, I agree that is isn't the governments decision to dictate how women deal with contraceptives.
DeleteTalia, with all due respect as well, I completely disagree with you.
ReplyDeleteYou're correct in saying that inequalities still exist- however, they're something that will never go away. Beliefs are still being passed down from generation to generation. Children are learning from their parents beliefs and continue to believe them without doing any extra searches to see if it's what they truly believe.
Legislation isn't something that will fix social inequalities. As we've learned, when African Americans were given the right to vote, states imposed literacy tests and a tax to prevent them from voting. Plus, the legislation did not, under any circumstances, change anyone's views that African Americans were "inferior." We have laws that promote non-discriminatory hiring and the majority of employers engage in such laws. In addition, there are things that workers can do to report discriminatory acts from employers. However, a law saying that "Women are 100% equal to men" will never happen, and surely will never be followed. Just to reinstate, discrimination will NEVER go away.
On your response to abortion, you say that the government should have no control over what a woman does with her body. Funny thing is, that's a new baby, A HUMAN, in her stomach. Why doesn't he or she get a say whether they want to live or not? In most cases, the woman CHOSE to have sex. She knew that with sex comes the possibility of pregnancy. If she really didn't want the possibility of a child, then she wouldn't have had sex in the first place. There are other ways to "satisfy those feelings" (without being too grotesque) that are 100% pregnancy-proof. However, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and say that abortions will be outlawed one day in the future. They're too widely accepted today and it's only a law that I can dream of.
Lastly, if you say that contraception is a personal choice, why should someone else have to pay for the contraceptives? Not every woman uses contraceptives. Men certainly don't use women's contraceptives, so why should anyone else but the woman using them have to have money taken out of their hard-earned paycheck to pay for someone else's "personal choice" ? I guess by that I've made it pretty obvious that I don't think that contraceptives should be covered. I mean it's not really health care if it's a "personal choice". Plus, if you don't want the government having a say in contraceptives, then you're pretty much saying that you don't want government coverage of it. That's what's so contradicitory about these kinds of things (The Republican party is just as guilty, I know.) You can't scream about how contraception should be left to individual choices with no government saying what you can and cant do, but then scream about how you want free contraceptives. You either want the government involved with health care or you don't.
Sam -
DeleteFirst of all, we will not make progress towards equal rights if people have already made up there mind that positive change will not come. There are things we can continue to improve upon to make America a land of more opportunity. Things in any area of government will never be perfect, but without an optimistic outlook, of course we will never make progress in this area! While discrimination may never completely go away, we should do all we can in the hopes that it will significantly decrease.
I understand your views on abortion, but regardless of what you personally believe I don't think legislation should be passed forcing the beliefs of some on the entire nation. Yes, it is inevitable that beliefs will influence politics. However, I feel this issue is far to personal and individualized for the government to attempt to ban abortions based on the beliefs of some politicians. Plus, if you're saying it was the woman's choice to get pregnant, shouldn't it be the woman's choice to terminate the pregnancy? I am not arguing against the value of human life. I'm saying that at some point, people need to look past their own opinions and look at America. We are made up of many types of people, and we should not force our beliefs onto others.
Your argument for contraceptives could also apply to any other area of government. That's like saying, "I can afford health care and don't need coverage, so why should I help others pay for it?" or "I don't go to public school, so I shouldn't have to pay those taxes." You could say that the choice to go to private school was a personal choice. The reality of America is we pay for programs that do not always benefit us.
In regards to hypocrisy, I find it ironic that the Republican party is all about small government, but they attempt to regulate issues like abortions and contraceptives.
You're correct in saying that we won't make progress if people aren't open to it. But that's the reality. 100% of the public will never be in mutual agreement on a single topic, no matter how much we want someone to take our personal beliefs.
DeleteNo one is going to overturn Roe vs Wade. It's not going to happen, ever. There's no question about it. It'll never happen. That's why people should stop worrying about things like abortion "rights" being eliminated because it will frankly never happen. And no, I'm not saying that. A new life was created. A human life. Where's this life's say in whether they want to live or die? But if you're talking about forcing beliefs down other's throats, isn't keeping abortion legal forcing beliefs down someone's throats? I mean, people are advocating for keeping abortions legal are putting your beliefs down someone's throats?
You're right. That's why we need government 100% out or 100% in. We can't, as a whole, pick and choose what we want involvement in.
In response to your hypocrisy, I find it ironic that the Democratic party wants large government involvement, but when it comes to government making decisions about GOVERNMENT BASED PROGRAMS, they don't want it involed.
SAM, IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE.
DeleteIn a perfect world it shouldn't be. However, we're not perfect. It's unavoidable. It's not something that legislation can fix overnight.
DeleteSam - I see where you're coming from, but there are still a lot of things we feel differently about. This debate could go on for a while though, so I'm good agreeing to disagree. :)
ReplyDeleteThe presidents are emphasizing their views on women's rights because Obama held the majority support of American women, where Romney was lacking. Obama, in turn, is trying to use Romney's pro-life stance to lose him women voters. However, apart from any views Romney holds, I stand by my belief that while abortion is such a hotly-debated issue today, the Roe v. Wade case was a case too controversial for any chance of being overturned in the future. Also the fact that the amount of deaths per year attributed to back-alley abortions has decreased exponentially, the case is unlikely to be overturned.
ReplyDeleteWomen should not abuse the right to legal abortions and should be careful in their actions, not using abortion as a form of regular contraception but rather as a last resort. While the government does not have the right to enter the privacy of a woman’s home and tell her what she can do with her body, legal restrictions are necessary: restrictions such as time constraints on when abortions are reasonable, reasonable being up to interpretation but implying before inhumanity is reached, a prime example being partial birth abortions (after the second trimester).
Lastly, in relation to the equality of women today, I stand by Grace and Sam. Legislation has been implemented to give women, along with minority groups, an equal opportunity in the work force. Now it is up to women to live up to this and more abundantly seek higher level jobs. The government can and should only do so much in enforcement/regulation.
In the case of the Lilly Ledbetter law, that is not government trying to force equality but to fix past inequalities which is a worthy cause I believe.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of women's health I think that it is difficult to say that in any situation aside from rape the women should have to live with the penalties of her actions. Having a child that represents a penalty of a past action really doesn't put the child in a great position either.
I agree that a fair amount of legislation is out there today to provide equal opportunity for minorities and women. The government has addressed this and other rights pertaining to women, and I feel like they have done enough. Now women just need to seek these opportunities.
ReplyDeleteSocially, things will change over time and it is up to parents to teach their child how to treat others. I think overtime, women will become equal to men and this can be seen through history(Blacks- mention by Talia). If women want changes, it is up to them to make them. The government has already done enough to make women and men equal.
ReplyDeleteI believe women should be allowed to have control with what they do with their body. And for those who disagree with this, you should watch some Law and Order: Special Victims Unit.
Did anyone else think that the term "Romnesia" was kind of funny? I know its just a stupid play on words, but Romney's been trumpeting "Obamacare" everywhere.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I like how both candidates keep on trying to attract one group of voters at a time. They concentrate all of their ads on one group and forget everyone else. They haven't come up with a campaign that appeals to everyone, apparently, because both of them keep changing it.
I definitely agree. This is a key tactic for collecting as many votes as the parties can from the groups.The groups feel like their concerns are being addressed, and the candidates get the votes of an entire category of voters. It's a win-win for both the groups and the candidates, at least on the surface.
DeleteIf this regulation corrects past wrongdoings, then great. However, I really liked what Grace said about true equality can't be legislated. Laws can only do so much, it's we as a society that needs to create the change. It's just going to take a lot longer than we would like.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for the women's rights regarding abortions, I feel like it isn't as black and white as some people make it out to be. Each case is different, so I don't think it would be fair to make such generalizations, especially when it comes to the law and human rights. However, I agree with Lauren that there should be restrictions for how far along you can be to initiate an abortion.
ReplyDeleteI believe this will always be a topic of debate and I believe that people will always disagree or agree with eachother. Women's rights is a very broad topic so I believe many people will have mixed emotions on different sub topics.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading a few of the previous comments, it is very interesting to compare everyone's opinions, especially the female students because we are most directly affecting by this topic of women's rights. There are and always will be people who feel strongly about the topic. Grace mentioned that "no one is saying women are not fundamentally equal to men. There is no concerted effort today to keep women out of higher level jobs, it is just a matter that fewer women apply for said jobs." And yet a key element of the argument is that females who have the same exact occupation as males, even with higher level jobs, do not always receive the same salary as the males.
ReplyDeleteWomen's right is always such a touchy topic. On the issue of abortion I completely agree with Grace. Who has the right to tell the unborn baby that they cannot have a life. We have Pro-Life and Pro-Choice but by having an abortion you are not only taking a life but you are not allowing that baby to have a CHOICE in where its life goes. Who knows what that child would be able to do if it was alive. Everyone deserves a chance to live. Every last person deserves her chance grow, learn and become a respected citizen of our society.
ReplyDeleteWell if there were more women represented in congress then we really wouldn't be having this debate. If you had a even representation of women or even a proportional amount in congress then there wouldn't even be discussion on abortion and birth control. Those would be passed in favor of women without question so maybe that is where we should begin with this struggle for equality for women.
ReplyDeleteNo one will ever agree on women's rights topics. Obviously women are very serious about these topics but men generally don't care that much. I agree with Adam that we need to have more women in congress too so that women will be represented better.
ReplyDeleteWomen today are equal when it comes to rights and opportunities and, if they feel that their rights aren't being protected, they can take whoever it is that is holding them back to court. However, I don't feel that women aren't working hard to become equally represented in congress but they feel that they would be looked down upon. Also, i think that many women don't think they would stand a chance in the election that would put them into congress. All the rights and opportunities are there, women just have to use them.
ReplyDeleteI agree that equality cannot be legislated, because people will always find a loophole or just ignore the law, and there is really no way to enforce or regulate that. However I do not believe that the lack of equality is a result of women not doing enough. If a woman tries o take advantage of an opportunity or speaks up in her job about enforcing the equality there is a very good chance she will be ignored or chastised for making a fuss. If that is the case there is really no way to get the equal pay they already should have or the respect or higher position they deserve. Equal pay should be legislated, and then enforced.
ReplyDeleteWith regard to abortion I personally do no agree with it, but there must be so many emotional and messy reasons for a woman to have an abortion, that I do not know about or could even conceive of. Since I cannot understand it I cannot tell anyone else what they should do, because I am not in their head. I think that abortion should be legal if only because if it is not they will still happen but they will be so dangerous to everyone involved. If they are legal they can be kept safer and less dangerous. No matter what this is a tricky issue.
Just thought I would give my two cents. What rights do women and minorities not have that white men have? Last time I checked everyone had equal rights in this country and, if you ask me, affirmative action is actually keeping these resentments around longer because I know of quite a few white men who now feel discriminated against. I will also admit that I have felt some rather negative feelings on affirmative action looking at colleges and scholarships. Everyone deserves equality, but that means everyone should get the same or mostly the same offerings, which I have yet to see. I really agree with some people that you also need to just get out there and earn respect. Everyone has to do it, it isn't just a race or sex issue. As for abortion it just has too many variables, but that being said I do not like it as a general practice. We did not naturally have the ability to do this, so there should really be cautionary steps.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said that better myself, Brian.
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