Wednesday, October 5, 2016
Tim Kaine and Mike Pence Clash Sharply Over Their Running Mates
The vice presidential debate was October 4, involving Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton's running mate, Senator Tim Kaine, and Republican nominee Donald Trump's running mate, Governor Mike Pence. Both Pence and Kaine addressed topics such as faith, insult-driven campaigns, and foreign affairs. Kaine, however, was on the offensive the entire night, addressing or rather attacking Donald Trump's various blunders and policies. Pence, however, took a more defensive approach, choosing to avoid addressing the attacks on Trump and making only a few attacks on Kaine's running mate, Hillary, while Kaine openly praised Hillary every chance he could get. What is your opinion on Pence's defensive approach versus Kaine's offensive one? Do you think the outcome of the vice presidential debate will have any lasting impact on the election?
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Mike Pence's defensive strategy made sense for the situation he was in. It is pretty much impossible to defend all of Trump's offensive and bizarre statements, so Pence had to avoid them to have any chance of performing well in the debate. I think Tim Kaine had the right idea in focusing most of his energy on attacking Trump, but I have seen clips of the debate and the way he carried himself was unusual. Kaine is known for being mild mannered and the overly energetic way he talked just seemed fake. Most polls agree that Pence won, but I think it is more a reflection of Kaine's performance than Pence's. Kaine should be himself on stage if he wants to succeed. I don't think this debate will have any effect on the election because not many people watched it and there were no major messups by either candidate.
ReplyDeletePence's calm demeanor and smooth responses were certainly more palatable than Kaine's, and I'm sure to the wide American public, he won. But to me, no.
ReplyDeleteAs obnoxious as his interruptions were, he was fact-checking, and was correct (unlike Mr. Trump's "Wrong, Wrong, Wrong" where Secretary Clinton was, in fact, right.)
While Pence's calm head shaking seemed professional to some, all I saw was someone unable to defend the top of their ticket. Frankly, I don't come out of it trusting Pence at all. While many harass Hillary for giving a laundry list of policy, at least I know what she's doing, I don't know anything about Pence or Trump.
Will it affect anything? No. I would vote for Hillary anyways, and even many who admit Pence won would still rather Hillary than Trump. Those who were already voting for Trump probably didn't see Kaine doing exactly what he did and say "hey! That's my mans! Let's vote for him!!"
It was interesting to watch though.
I'll be honest, I wasn't all too familiar with the vice presidential candidates going into this debate. I really expected Pence to be crazier and more wishy-washy, for lack of a better word, on his beliefs like Trump. I like that Kaine made sure to point out that Pence couldn't even defend Trump's actions and that Trump hasn't apologized, etc. However, I agree with Josh that everyone saying Pence "won" is more a reflection of Kaine acting up and cutting Pence off, more than it is a reflection of Pence being more informed and capable. I had never seen a vice presidential debate before, so I had no idea that all except the first question would be about the candidates. Of course, I thought it would obviously come up, but I didn't realize that the entire 90 minutes would be about them. I wish there had been more time for them to answer questions, as the moderator often had to cut them off just as they were getting go the point in their answers, and with that, they often got off topic. To conclude, I like that Kaine was on the offense, but I think he might have gotten a little carried away with it and that's what cost him the win.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Heidi. Coming into this debate I too expected Pence to be more like Trump, and be more idiotic as he chose to be the running mate of Donald Trump. Surprisingly Kaine reminded me more of Trump than Pence did because of his offensive tactics throughout practically the entire debate. Obviously Kaine wasn't just spouting nonsense like some of the comments that Trump makes, but he still used the time he had on air to create an irritating persona out of himself. If someone watching the debates, like myself, who doesn't have much knowledge of these running mates, then that person would definitely view Pence as a much more like able person.
Delete¬¬¬To begin, unfortunately I do not believe this debate will have a strong effect on the campaigns of either candidates, nor on the elections as a whole. The Vice Presidential debate is viewed much less than the Presidential debates, which makes it less likely to have an intense effect. Although Kaine seemed a little more jumpy, which did affect the way Americans viewed him, Pence also did not speak the truth on many issues. When it came to things he and Trump have both said in the past, he denied time and time again. I agree with what Heidi and Josh said about Kaine’s demeanor having a bigger impact people opinion’s of him instead of what he and Pence brought to the table.
ReplyDelete¬¬¬To begin, unfortunately I do not believe this debate will have a strong effect on the campaigns of either candidates, nor on the elections as a whole. The Vice Presidential debate is viewed much less than the Presidential debates, which makes it less likely to have an intense effect. Although Kaine seemed a little more jumpy, which did affect the way Americans viewed him, Pence also did not speak the truth on many issues. When it came to things he and Trump have both said in the past, he denied time and time again. I agree with what Heidi and Josh said about Kaine’s demeanor having a bigger impact people opinion’s of him instead of what he and Pence brought to the table.
ReplyDeleteI think that the strategy Kaine was given by his campaign manager to use is a good one. However, the way Kaine executed this plan during the debate was not as favorable. I think that Kaine became so wrapped up in getting every last jab in that it started to hurt him because he got flustered. Thankfully, as Shannah started her response with, not many people probably watched this debate so that won't hurt Kaine as much as it could. There are so many offensive and un-presidential things that Trump has said that questioning how Pence can still back him is a really valid and smart objective. How can Pence, or anyone for that matter, support such a hateful, rude, offensive, and obnoxious person? Even Trump's own running mate can't seem to come up with reasons to support him.
ReplyDeleteOne topic that was discussed during the debate, other than Trump or Hillary, is abortion. Being the feminist that I am, I have to say that Kaine did a great job. Even though he doesn't personally agree with abortion he accepts and promotes the fact that it is none of his business. This article even quotes Kaine saying “The very last thing the government should do is punish women who make reproductive choices". I couldn't agree more with this sentiment and I feel that by saying this Kaine sets an example for other conservatives who might not agree with abortion but must start to accept that they don't get to have a say in this matter.
I just recently had the opportunity to watch the VP debate.
ReplyDeleteLets forget about policy for a second and talk about tone. While watching the VP debate, I felt like I was watching, well, a debate, as opposed to the unprofessional mess that had me laughing out loud more than concerning myself with politics (see: "Trump Up, Trickle Down" and "It's 'cause I'm smart"). It's obvious Kaine's aggressive tactics during this debate turned some people off, but it was an effective strategy; Pence's calm nature was definitely a breath of fresh air unlike the World's Richest Oompa Loompa. With policy, there seemed to be more explaining of intentions on both sides, an improvement since the last debate; these candidates presented their stances on certain issues (yes, I too cringed when Pence talked about abortion) with professionalism. And while I can't say I'd prefer Kaine as a presidential candidate to Clinton, I'd take Pence over Trump any time.
This debate may not have had a significant affect on the American people as a whole, having the smallest audience of a VP debate since 2009 (http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/media/vice-presidential-debate-ratings/),
but I certainly was affected by it. In my eyes, the Republican party has gained some credibility having Pence as Trump's running mate, and Kaine proved his credibility as well.
I just recently had the opportunity to watch the VP debate.
ReplyDeleteLets forget about policy for a second and talk about tone. While watching the VP debate, I felt like I was watching, well, a debate, as opposed to the unprofessional mess that had me laughing out loud more than concerning myself with politics (see: "Trump Up, Trickle Down" and "It's 'cause I'm smart"). It's obvious Kaine's aggressive tactics during this debate turned some people off, but it was an effective strategy; Pence's calm nature was definitely a breath of fresh air unlike the World's Richest Oompa Loompa. With policy, there seemed to be more explaining of intentions on both sides, an improvement since the last debate; these candidates presented their stances on certain issues (yes, I too cringed when Pence talked about abortion) with professionalism. And while I can't say I'd prefer Kaine as a presidential candidate to Clinton, I'd take Pence over Trump any time.
This debate may not have had a significant affect on the American people as a whole, having the smallest audience of a VP debate since 2009 (http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/media/vice-presidential-debate-ratings/),
but I certainly was affected by it. In my eyes, the Republican party has gained some credibility having Pence as Trump's running mate, and Kaine proved his credibility as well.
I can't see this debate having any extreme significance in the the turnout of the election. I didn't bother to watch on the fourth, so I don't have much to comment on besides the highlights covered by this article. From the article I gleaned that Kaine and Pence didn't have anything new to bring to the table, nothing fresh. They both seem like chips off of their running mates and overall very watered down and tiresome. While I was reading, I found it amusing that both candidates appeared to be opposites of their respective running mates. As far as the defensive and offensive stances of each candidate, it stinks that Pence got stuck on the defensive the whole time. There's not too much fun to be had over there, but when your working with a trainwreck like Trump it's hard to get away from the ammunition that Kaine and Clinton have been stockpiling.
ReplyDeleteTrump, very early on in the primary debates, proved himself to be an unstable, harsh, agitated candidate. Perhaps in an attempt to balance that reputation and prove to the American public that there existed sanity in the Trump administration, Pence took a cooler approach to the debate. As Giacomo said, this type of demeanor may have convinced many he was victorious. But to me his approach seemed somewhat passive aggressive, evidenced by the persistent head nodding. Also, many of Pence's policies are extremely radical and staunch, so to talk about them in such a serene tone seemed unnatural and a little creepy. I think that if Kaine had said exactly what he said in a milder tone, he would have clearly won the debate.
ReplyDeleteI don't really think this vice presidential debate will have any effect on the presidential election. I feel like both vice presidential candidates did what they were supposed to; none of them did anything to ruin the chances of the presidential candidates. However, in my opinion, Pence did a better job. I found Kaine's constant attacking and aggressive praise of Hillary kind of annoying. In contrast, I thought Pence's calm and respectable approach didn't wow anyone, but certainly was perceived differently than Trump's personality. Overall, they did what they were supposed to do, but I don't think this debate will make much of a difference.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anurag. The VP debate has much less impact on the election than the presidential campaign. (Even the presidential debates has little impact as people already know who they will be voting for.) But Kaine's constant aggression was annoying and it only made Pence look calm and collected. In addition, Kaine's constant praise of Hillary made it seem like he was nothing but her pawn. Pence, on the other hand, separated himself from Trump, which could give some Republican voters some relief that at least one of the two names on the ballot isn't crazy.
DeleteI do not think that this debate will have any long lasting affect on the election; if we're being honest not many people pay much attention to the vice presidential debate. Kaine's offensive approach took me by surprise, he attacked Trump and Pence to a degree that I thought was a bit fabricated. After seeing Kaine in other interview clips, this debate seemed to show him out of character. As for Pence, even if he wanted to go on the offensive, he was in no place to, as he had to clean up and defend Trump to the extent that he could. Pence definitely seemed more collected than Kaine, but Pence was on damage control while Kaine got to attack and expose Trump more.
ReplyDeleteI think Pence's defensive approach and Kaine's more offensive approach serves as a role switch for the Presidential debates, where Trump is usually the aggressor, and Hillary is on the defensive. I think if this was a strategy used by Trumps campaign, it was a pretty decent idea, as it allows Americans to see a more mild mannered option at Vice President, and is a contrast to Trumps continuous attacks on really anything. I don't think this debate will have any real impact on the election, but I found it interesting that Pence didn't agree exactly with Trump on every issue, yet Kaine continually praised Hillary Clinton throughout the debate. It allowed us the chance to see if Pence would agree with Trump on various issues, and how he would respond to the many crazy claims and quotes from Trump . We will have to wait until the election to see if this debate had any real impact, but I don't believe it did.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the debate Kaine had one strategy, make Pence contradict what Trump says. And when it comes to that, Kaine did an excellent job. His aggressive attitude throughout the debate had Pence on the back foot, causing him to contradict Trump. If you look at this debate, one might say Kaine was a bully and Pence "won". But this debate does not matter, a vice presidential debate has not and will not affect a presidential race. The Clinton campaign used this to their advantage and instructed Kaine to be on the offensive. This led to Pence's contradiction of policies with Trump which lead to this ad from the Clinton Campaign https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOWItkanDs . In the grand scheme of things, since this debate does not matter and the Clinton campaign got a lot of soundbites of Pence, this debate is a win for Hillary.
ReplyDeleteThe vise presidential debate is historically the one with the least impact, and that seems to be holding true this election cycle as well- the first presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump has 12.2 million views on NBCs youtube channel, while this one has an underwhelming 1.8 million views. As to the strategies used by the candidates, Mike Pence probably resonated well with the conservative demographic by playing a more defensive role. There was little doubt that Kaine was going to attack his running mate, and he subverted many of Kaine's arguments by being discreet with his answer or not answering the question fully (though this isn't an ethical way to approach the debate).
ReplyDeleteI found it interesting that the Trump campaign picked Pence and made him use a more defensive tone for his debate, while the Clinton campaign used Kaine to try and go on the offensive during the debate. While I think both side's strategies hold merit in trying to sway more voters their way, I feel like the execution of Pence's method will overall look better to the public, even if what Kaine was going after was completely true, he didn't look professional in his actions. The Democratic party had every right to target Trump and all his words, but I think that the way how Kaine went about doing that drew more negative attention towards himself than Trump, which isn't exactly the best thing he could have done. I think that because of this, Pence will "win" the debate, but it won't end up doing much in the end, because as Sean said above me, the VP debate historically doesn't have much effect on the election itself, which looks like its about to come true yet again.
ReplyDeletePersonally, it makes sense for Pence to have gone of the defensive. There's not a lot, in my opinion, that he can say about Trump that hasn't already been reiterated by Trump himself. I'm not sure if Kaine should have spent as much time attacking Trump as he did, since, again, most of America should know the same old song and dance by now; personally, I feel like more time should have been spent talking up Clinton. However, I don't think many non-activists even knew the debate was happening, let alone watched it, so I doubt it had much of an effect on who voters decided on.
ReplyDeleteIt is an interesting contrast, as Trump traditionally goes on the offensive, to watch Pence take a more defensive approach. Kaine, however, should have performed with a more calm approach and refrained from the interruptions. However, trashing Trump generally seemed to work for the campaign, so it is understandable that they would continue this strategy. However, as stated before, no matter what occurred at this debate (barring the extraordinary), there would have been little impact - the viewing and following of a vice presidential debate is depressingly low. While Kaine might have attacked, and Pence might have contradicted, it most likely did not matter in the grand scheme of things due to the lack of involvement in this debate.
ReplyDelete