Wednesday, September 28, 2016
Hillary Is Not the First Politician to Delete Their Emails
During George W. Bush's presidency he had "lost" 22 million emails. These emails were on private servers owned by the Republican National comittee, similar to how Hillary Clinton's emails were on private servers. Should George W. Bush be criticized as much as Hillary Clinton is now? Do you think we should ignore or not criticize Clinton as much because it is commonplace in Politics? Why or why not?
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I genuinely had no idea this had gone on, but now I am shocked. Learning of the few repercussions Bush faced, even though he was the President is appalling. Especially when comparing his actions to Clinton's. One does need to take into consideration why Clinton is under such fire; because it is an election year and she is a front runner her opposers wanted material on her to try to defeat her. In addition to this, she has never had it easy in her career. Being a woman has made it so she must, at all times, be a step ahead and be working harder. Bush should have received at least the same amount of criticism she has gotten so far. If her emails are preventing her from getting into the White House, his should have made it so that people wanted him out of the White House.
ReplyDeleteGeorge W. Bush should definitely be criticized for these actions as much as Hillary Clinton is. There is no excuse for purposely losing or just failing to keep track of official emails when in office. This corruption should be looked into by appropriate agencies in the same way Hillary's was.
ReplyDeleteAmericans, regardless of political affiliation, should continue to criticize Hillary's actions because we need to hold politicians accountable when they engage in irresponsible and dangerous behavior. Sending possibly classified information over unsecured servers should not be considered acceptable for politicians.
I had no idea this had happened, and now I have to wonder, is this a question of party affiliation, gender discrimination, or both? What I mean by that is, is Clinton taking so much more heat because she is, as our textbook would say, a "crackpot liberal", or because she is a woman, or both? Bush's email scandal was so unpublicized that many of us are entirely unaware of it ever happening, but is that because is is a male republican- a man of the people, unlike "over-prepared" Hillary? Its sad how now when I read articles about our government being corrupt, it doesn't shock me anymore. It shocks me what lengths people will go to to hide information, but the actual hiding of information is just a normal thing now... I think the thing that scares me most about all of this is the following- Bush's hidden emails were written before/during the war in Iraq. What was in them that so desperately had to be gotten rid of? And why were there no consequences? Following this further, I can't help but to wonder what we'll find out in the future. I'm sure there are other scandals that are hidden now that will come out much later, like this one.
ReplyDeleteI remember Secretary Clinton mentioning many times that the use of a private email server was not uncommon and (lying) not illegal. The first part, definitely true. Without question, Bush should be slandered and criticized just as much as Clinton, so there's your answer, but I'll answer another question: Why is Hillary getting so much more flak than Bush?
ReplyDeleteProbably lots of reasons. I'll pick 2.
First of all, Ms. Clinton is a woman. This is unnerving to some. A strong female leader who's willing to criticize men? Uh-uh. No good. While President Bush was an undeniable representation of a large percentage (at least geographically speaking) of our country, Hillary is a staunchly educated, passionate, and stoic woman. President Bush was just kind of there. In fact, I'm not even sure if they'd both been women it would've been much different. Bush wants to hang out and talk about the kind of paint you put on your fence, Clinton wants to talk about its environmental impacts.
But we can't ignore SOAPSTONE, or, in this case, periodization (occasion). When Bush delet- LOST, his emails, we were going to war. A very, very popular war. Much like FDR, nobody wanted to report the president in bad health, because we as the American people needed to have faith in our government and leaders. When Secretary Clinton deleted her's, though? We were a people weary of endless war. We groaned at the prospect of further fighting in the Middle East, and longed for the days of "Mission Accomplished!!" America was back to business as usual, and the news had no problem slandering a crooked politician. By then, Bush's story was old news, not worth reporting.
So, yes, of course Bush should be equally criticized (though we should criticize either as much as Hillary has been), but it's pretty easy to see why he wasn't as much.
Trust is an important factor when considering who is going to lead this country. I find it disgusting that Bush was likely hiding information about the Iraq war from the public on private email servers - an acting president did this. This was probably not put into the limelight by the media because Bush was not running for president. Anything a campaigner does is going to be scrutinized - Hilary coughs or Trump sniffs and there is a new twitter hashtag. It seems unfair, but this anti-intellectualist culture that parts of America have would like to focus on scandals rather than policies. Yes, it is important to be mindful of what candidates do wrong, but perhaps this whole email thing is being blown out of proportion, especially considering an acting president did the same without nearly as much criticism.
ReplyDeleteIf you ask any person why they aren't voting for or supporting Secretary Clinton the word 'email' is likely to be brought up. However, if you asked the same person about Bush that same word would be completely evaded and forgotten. Basically, the only reason anyone cares about the emails is because that's all they have. The deleted emails that Clinton owns up to and says were a mistake are the one fault in her campaign. People realized that between saying "she can't be president because she's a woman" and " she can't be president because she can't be trusted because she deleted emails" the latter was more accepted. If you take away the deleted emails, what else can people find fault in on the surface other than her loud pantsuits? Clinton cant catch a break on this issue because it was a terrible mistake but really because she is running for president. As Jay said, Bush's email scandal was not talked about nearly as much as Clinton's because Bush was "active" president when his happened and Clinton is still running. First of all, I'm not sure that "active president" is the best way to describe Bush's role as Cheney's puppet, but we'll stick with that term for technical reasons. Second, Clinton's scandal was a mistake, while Bush's was intentional deletion of emails even though he claims that they were "lost". Overall, I think that the email scandal is not a good enough reason for anyone not to vote for Hillary and it certainly has been, as Jay said, blown way out of proportion.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know about these emails being deleted, and I wouldn't have if it weren't for this article. And I think this is how most other Americans think. Bush's presidency is over, so his emails don't matter. I can see how some may want to know what happened and hold certain people accountable for events and things that were harmful to our nation. But, I don't think that's the majority, as the article also states. In this election, Hillary Clinton is being pressed about her deleted emails, but she's running for president, whereas Bush was an active president. Bush's scandal was bad, but Hillary's seems way worse. I think the main reason is that she's in the middle of a campaign. People are looking for things to compare candidates; this email scandal happens to be a big factor in deciding who to vote for, so naturally people will talk about it. Also, there is much less going on in the world that directly impacts the US than in Bush's presidency, therefore his emails were overlooked a bit. Lastly, I do not think that Hillary being a woman has anything to do with why her email scandal looks so much worse. I believe if a male candidate had his problem with the same conditions, the results would be almost exactly the same.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Anu. I don't think Hillary being a woman has much to do with the reason why her email scandal has been covered so much. Firstly, as many others have pointed out, is that she is running for office. She has to prove to the public that she is trustworthy and is worthy for the position of president, whereas Bush was already president. Furthermore, this election cycle has involved many insults such as Lil' Marco and Crooked Hillary. The supporters of Trump would, of course, try to make "Crooked Hillary" seem as crooked as possible, and they would accomplish this by highlighting her email scandals. On a separate note, there should be more criticism on Bush for his emails, but it wouldn't do anything. He is already long gone. and the general public wouldn't care.
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DeleteThis is somewhat unhinging to hear about, especially considering this issue was not at all talked about during this campaign trail. While the GOP has been hounding away on Hillary Clinton for keeping her own private email server, they have one of their own acting equally against the grain of normal standards. A combination of factors has led to the inequality in coverage. For one, as Anurag said, Hillary Clinton is running for president. Therefore, her media coverage is understandably more intense and scrutinizing. However, the misuse of a public email server is a violation of the PRA, as the article mention, so both engaged in illegal activity. The main two reasons for the coverage inequality is because Bush is somewhat irrelevant now, and because Hillary Clinton is a woman. The combination of the double standard and extra scrutiny on Hillary Clinton and the lack of coverage on George Bush as a happy-go-lucky sitting president makes for one news story and one story to avoid, respectively. In all honesty, neither candidate deserves this scrutiny for their emails, and it should not be commonplace in politics. However, as it is, it is disgusting to see the double standards at work, and Bush deserves just as much criticism as Hillary.
ReplyDeleteThis is the first that I've heard of a Bush email scandal, and I find it concerning considering it apparently took place "between 2003 and 2009" while the Iraq war was being fought. While this wrongdoing obviously wasn't given the coverage that Clinton's was, politicians should ideally receive equal scrutiny and repercussions for all their actions during their terms or office, though this is an ideal more than a procedure that will ever be followed. Both Democrats and Republicans look to take issues like these and form campaign points out of them, while brushing it under the rug when their own candidate slips up. These errors are both disconcerting, regardless of political sentiments or biases. The article even noted that an attempt to delete an email would first result in a popup explaining to the user that doing so would be in violation of the PRA! "Losing" 22 million emails is ridiculous when archiving them is now a process essential to the integrity of an administration, and both Clinton and apparently Bush's political managements have proven to be less than trustworthy.
ReplyDeleteI never knew that Bush had deleted emails from his server before reading this article. But I agree with Anurag in that the reason Hillary Clinton's emails are brought up all the time is because she is on the campaign trail, not because she is a woman. Her opponents are constantly trying to make her less appealing as a presidential candidate, and by reiterating the same problems with her emails, it becomes ingrained in our brains and is all we can associate with Hillary Clinton anymore. Although I don't think it's okay that George Bush got out of the public eye because he was already a sitting president, we can't do much about it now, as it was a decade ago. Also, as stated in the article, it won't be until at least 2021 when we could find out what was actually in those emails, so we have a while to wait.
ReplyDeleteI found this actually very interesting as when I watched the debate, I was chatting with both Hillary supporters and Trump Supports alike. They both seemed to be convinced that their candidate was winning the debate. Trump supported admired him for the very reason they supported him in first place: His quick speech and his ad hominem attacks. Hillary supporters liked her for her immense knowledge of her detailed policy and her ability to call upon it so quickly. So, to me as an anarchist I wasn't swayed either way, but to the average voter, it seemed that the debate didn't really have much effect on their choice, they were mostly preset on their preference.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Hillary got so much more hate over her email scandal than Bush is because of two separate reasons. One, like Giaccomo said earlier, Hillary is a strong female leader, and in this day and age it is natural for women to be under a higher scrutiny than men even if they have similar cases. Trump himself holds a misogynistic point of view, so it only makes sense that his followers do too. That, as well as the fact that Trump will not let this issue die, is one reason why Hillary's email scandal hasn't quieted down like Bush's did. Another reason why Hillary's emails received so much more attention is because of how technological our lives are now. We are living in the digital age, where we can hardly keep a secret safe anymore thanks to the Internet. And with how neverending the Internet is, it's highly unlikely anyone will let this matter drop.
ReplyDeleteBoth Hillary and Trump's supporters are quite vocal, but the one thing they can agree on is that their respective candidate will win. However, from the supporters I've seen and talked to, Hillary supporters listen to Trump and are able to intelligently correct the inaccuracies he says. Trump supporters on the other hand are blissfully ignorant and only focus on Hillary's health, rather than her speeches.
Disgusting, but not shocking, which only makes it worse; corruption and politics go together like Adam Sandler and horrible movies, it's unfortunately expected. I was completely unaware of the Bush administration's email scandal until reading this article and I believe that president Bush deserves a large amount of criticism for his private server. It's very obvious that Clinton's emails hold more weight than Bush's given that she is currently running for president, but I feel she deserves all the criticism she is receiving. Regardless of political affiliation or sex, Bush and Clinton's private email's should be a topic for ridicule.
ReplyDeleteIn an ideal world, the two politicians would have received equal scrutiny for the scandals. However, given that this is the first many of us are hearing about the Bush email scandal, clearly the two politicians did not receive equal scrutiny. While this could partially have been due to Clinton's being a strong female political leader (as Giacomo said), likely it is due more to the fact that she is running for president. When Bush deleted his emails, he was already president. While the president is still watched considerably after the election, in the months leading up to the election the candidates and their lives are basically on display for all to see. Nothing is private during that time, and everything is highly covered by all forms of media. The fact that Hillary's scandal occurred during her campaign for president likely caused it to have more coverage, and therefore more backlash, than Bush's scandal. While this is not ideal, it is what happens in the political world. Scandals happen constantly in politics, but the ones that receive the most media coverage usually involve the candidates for president. Both politicians ideally should have received equal scrutiny, but due to timing of Hillary's scandal, they did not.
ReplyDeleteI think that part of the reason this was kept under wraps so well to this class was the lack of instantaneous social media back then and the fact that it wasn't part of our generation. I don't think bringin up Bush's scandal today would have done much for the election, however. Clinton and Trump are so polarized, I find it hard to believe anyone would sway between the two just because of a past err by Bush. The fact that the email scandal was during Bush's presidency could also attribute to why it was so well kept under wraps, while Clinton as a candidate was bound to have any dirt on her exaggerated to the umpteenth degree and made common knowledge to everyone.
ReplyDeleteWell, add me to the list of people that never heard about this "loss" of emails. Unfortunately, I don't think that we can make this as black and white of an issue that would allow blame to be flipped and used against the Republican party. Giacomo does a perfect job at stating why the two similar cases don't exactly equate to blame being balanced. Even if we brought this issue to the front page of every newspaper and website, I don't think that it would change many people's minds. Clinton already is unattractive for her personality, which meshes perfectly with this issue as a whole, while Bush isn't as likely to draw as much of a connection personality wise to the scandal as a whole. Personally, I think both should be criticized equally, but that would never happen due to the different circumstances and people responsible. It's not fair the way it is, but that is the issue of politics, and the flaw with the masses who choose to interpret these events this way.
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